Shocking indeed…

The videos and pictures are horrid. I can’t think of a more apalling thing to happen during a time of war. Yet during all of this evidence against American troops, another American hostage was taken. I also have my own cartoon.

Another shocking atrocity was brought to my attention today: Sudan, a nation that has not abolished slavery, has recently been appointed to the UN Human Rights Commission. Nothing says Human Rights like government sponsored ethnic cleansing. To express disgust of this (since the media doesn’t seem to want to call for the head of the Sudanese defense secretary), go here.

In Coaster news: nothing substantial was done this week since my fiancee was in town and we had wedding plans to work on. Coaster development will resume this week by getting it to actually do something :). Hopefully I can get it to eject discs this week.

10 Replies to “Shocking indeed…”

  1. The cartoon seems to suggest that torture can be justified, and that America should do more of it.

    Also, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. They don’t even make it slightly right,.

  2. I don’t disgaree, but I see nothing in the Cartoon, or text justifying anything, its simply showing how inanely one sided the medias representations have been. There have been atrocities on Both sides here, both before and during the war, yet the Media has thus far primarily been only outraged by those performed by U.S. troops.

    At this point its like people are still trying hard to decry that nothing good could ever come from the war, which is a lost cause. The war happened, giving up now and just abandoning the country would be stupid simply in terms of Iraqi stability long term, which would be worse for world wide economy and especially U.S. economy. So perhaps a balanced media representation might help end this conflict by truly representing the worst and best on both sides, instead of painting the U.S. Soldies as always the bad guy, and the Iraqi as always the good guys/underdog. It isn’t that cut and dry and never was, and the sooner we can get things stable over there the better.

    Painting the average U.S. soldier as a torturing fanatic does nothing but incite more violence against them which makes the situation worse than before. Don’t forget many Iraqis watch our same news and for or against the war is meaningless at this point. If we just up and leave we will be leaving a very disturbed, unstable, directionless, even more anti-US people with a grudge in charge of a country that like it or not, has huge impact on the worlds economy, especially our own.

    The media has a chance to apologize for our actions without once condoning them, while still showing the other side, that of often misguided terrorits as being just as bad. Which should only help improve stability by soothing public relations between our peoples. But thus far the medias representation of it has been strictly sensationalism with one goal, the war is wrong, US is wrong, US is bad, US soldiers are cruel, US Government or US soldiers are the real reason for every problem over there and thus are only getting whats coming to them, which has and will likely continue to only made things worse.

    </end rant>

  3. > I don’t disgaree, but I see nothing in the Cartoon,

    > or text justifying anything,

    "If our government and media pursued justice against Islamist tyrants and terrorists with the same vigor they display in pursuing our own criminals"

    Assuming that they are confusing Iraqis with Islamist terrorists rather than making an unrelated point, this seems to suggest that they ought to be _more_ harsh on Iraqis.

    And the detailing of other wrongs, by other people can only be to suggest either

    a) Other people are as bad, so it’s OK to do the same.

    or b) They deserve it.

    or c) It’s unfair to demand that America should be reprimanded for torturing people, because they are not the only ones.

    Ob viously this is insinuated rather than said directly.

    Tortue is an absolute wrong, and its wrongness has no relation to other wrongs. It shouldn’t be covered up, explained away, or forgiven, for any reason whatsoever.

  4. Torture is wrong, and the American people will put an end to it. It is appalling to see Sudan appointed to the U.N. Human Rights Commission, so I sent an email from the link you provided. Thanks.

    Anyhow, thank you for pointing out a flaw in the media and world community. I am suprised how few choose not to see the double standard.

  5. "Torture is wrong, and the American people will put an end to it."

    *That* is precisely why there *is* a double standard!! Democratic nations, and US in specific, are held to a higher standard, and expected not to torture. If you think its ok to torture to achieve "American self interest" then theres no conversation to be had with you.

    The reason why this is a big deal, is because "Americans" are *not* putting and end to it, they are *causing* it!! I can’t believe that you see nothing wrong with that statement.

    The cartoon’s website on the link, is so horribly biased it is so wonderfully American. Right-wing loonies like those people have more in common with "Islamist tyrants" than just a little torture. The funny part is they cannot distinguish between their own extremist beliefs and others. Extremism itself is the problem, but they think thier version, and Bush’s version is OK, while "Islamist" extremism is BAD.

    As for the Sudan thing, if the USA spent more time working within the UN instead of depricating it, then wasting all its moral authority on wars and torture, then maybe they could do more to right the wrongs inside it than walk away from the table in disgust.

  6. Go ahead and convince yourself that the important issue of the moment is the existance of a "double standard". It seems to be the indignation you want to feel.

    Then, some day, if you want to try to figure out how *you* want to think about these events, you’re going to have to sort through all this systematically. Then, you may want to start with neutral language. I’d suggest starting with nothing but "humans" and trying to figure out why each of them does what they do.

    As you parse the events, you’ll start asking yourself a number of new questions.

    What does the label "terrorist" mean and who would it apply to in this situation?

    Do I really want to describe one group’s forcing humans into captivity as taking "prisoners" and the other group’s as taking "hostages"?

    How do my beliefs in regard to this situation lead to a better world for me?

    For now, enjoy you’re indignation. You and I are not ready to have any productive thoughts about these violences and how our beliefs my encourage or dissade them.

  7. 1. I do not support torture. It is wrong.

    2. I did not say the "double standard" is the important issue, but it does exist.

    "If you think its ok to torture to achieve "American self interest" then theres no conversation to be had with you. "

    and

    "Go ahead and convince yourself that the important issue of the moment is the existance of a "double standard". It seems to be the indignation you want to feel."

    Both quoted statements are ridiculous. Both of you are putting words into my mouth. If you want to argue, then argue with regards to what I have said and not what you wish I would have said.

  8. >"If our government and media pursued justice

    > against Islamist tyrants and terrorists with the

    > same vigor they display in pursuing our own > criminals"

    > Assuming that they are confusing Iraqis with > Islamist terrorists rather than making an

    > unrelated point, this seems to suggest that

    > they ought to be _more_ harsh on Iraqis.

    no no no no. Don’t read it into it more than there is. There is a bgt diffence between being harsh on the Iraqis, and seeking justice for those Islamic Terroists IN Iraq.

    And that is the word they used "Justice".

    Don’t mistake the intent here, the point of the cartoon is not about the rightness or wrongness of the situation but about as it was put, the "double standard" of the media regarding pursuing of justice for those doing wrong.

    Only caring about those doing wrong on "our" side, as if our soldiers are the only criminals performing atrocities worth reporting about, which is much an implicit decleration that those in the media think the Iraqi/Islamic Extremists/Terrorists are in the right or don’t matter.

    > Go ahead and convince yourself that the

    > important issue of the moment is the

    > existance of a "double standard". It

    > seems to be the indignation you want

    > to feel.

    The double standard _is_ the issue because it shows the real problem with the situation is the attempt to make an us vs them, or them vs us situation. The fact there is a double standard at all is an indication of bias’ which is far more reaching then just this one incident. Too many soldiers are biased against all Iraqis, to many Islamists are biased against all (US)Americans, to many in the new media are biased against anything pertaining to the war.

    There IS a double standard. And yes we should be indignant because as long as there is this double standard there is nothing going to be done to solve all the issues. Better we get angry and do something about _all_ the problems resulting from this double standard then simply passively ignoring the fact that there even is one.

  9. Denis: That sentance was a conditional. If you deplore the "We can do anything in the name of our own self interest" kind of reasoning as self-defeating and morally bankrupt, then we are in agreement, and I have no issue. If you think that the end justifies the means, then we have no common ground to debate. 🙂

    ajgenius: I know from direct observation while I was in the US not too long ago, that US media is some of most sensationalist and biased in the english speaking first world, but I have yet to see anyone dare to suggest that what is done to western hostages is OK while what is done to Iraqi "prisoners" evil. What the cartoonist is complaining about simply does not exist in other western media. What they are doing is presenting the same "your for us or against us" black and white mentality that paints anyone who disagree with them as an evil. That is the extremism of Bush. Thats the extremism of radical Islam.

    The linked cartoon+website is simply spreading their own incorrect bias and labelling it "counter-bias". If American media outfits spent less time spreading "counter-bias" then there wouldn’t be so much regular-bias in the first place. Its all bias, and its a cycle than continually feeds in on itself; entrenching the positions of the believers, and vilifying the disbelievers.

    Its interesting to note that a cartoon of theres further down shows a carticature of a skinny black African riding a muscular white American like a horse, labelled the UN. To me that just screams racism.

  10. Three quick points.

    1) I doubt you could articulate a well reasoned explanation of what this supposed "double standard" would be if it existed. I also don’t think you could demonstrate this duality in any widely respected/read publications.

    2) A single standard, rooted in human decency, arrives at very different criticisms of every different group or individual involved in the current violence in the tigris/euphrates watershed.

    3) The issue is irrelvant to improving the situation but very useful for those who are trying to shift the issue. While you are talking about "unfairness in assigning blame" you are not talking about "the violence" (nor doing anything to stop it). The cartoon/website/issue is an effective propaganda tactic which can occupy your time or not. Note, that in the US, this has become a standard tactic of the right wing so it is particularly transparent to those who think critically about the news stream.

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